Batteries
updated 1/28/96




Help With my Batteries

Help - I have Battery Problems ?

IS There A Difference In Storage Batteries?

Winterizing Batteries

How Can I Destroy My Storage Batteries?

The advantages of Alkaline Batteries for Home Power

The advantages of Lead Acid Batteries for Home Power




Help With my Batteries
© Copyright 1997 By Charlie Collins Mr. solar column BackHome #33 - December 1997

Dear Mr. Solar:

We are planning a move to Upstate New York later this spring and will be building a small (1152 square foot) energy independent home on our 16 acres. We pretty well got things worked out with our budget and our needs (well pump, 2.5 kW inverter, propane heat, DHW, and & refrig.,CFL lights, 2.5 kW backup generator) but have been wondering about battery storage. We're planning to use twelve 75 - watt rack-mounted modules and run the system on 12 volts. The first question is, would it be better to use the Trojan L-16 deep cycle types or spend more for an equivalent "sealed" battery. From the catalogs we've looked at, the sealed types are more than twice as expensive and don't have the high amp-hour ratings of the L-16. We also see that the sealed batteries need very careful regulation, which probably means additional expense in a top-of-the-line controller. Is all this worth it? How about the 2-volt separate can units? Are they just industrial-quality wet-cell deep cycles, priced appropriately? We figure a need of about 700 amp-hours for our system. The second question is about low-voltage / emergency lighting , which will affect my wiring plan. Do you recommend spending the extra time and money on a three or four 12-volt lighting circuits in the house? We figured they be worth it for basic light if the inverter punked out, and we could run a radio and the blower fan on 12 volts too. Thanks for your help!

The second question is about low-voltage / emergency lighting , which will affect my wiring plan. Do you recommend spending the extra time and money on a three or four 12-volt lighting circuits in the house? We figured they be worth it for basic light if the inverter punked out, and we could run a radio and the blower fan on 12 volts too. Joe & Melissa K. White Plains, New York Hello Joe & Melissa -

In regards to your first question about the L-16 vs. Sealed Gel batteries. I am sure that you realize that there is a difference between L - 16 as well as gel type from different manufracturerers.

The sealed battereis are freeze proof and we recommend them for remote cabins that will not be used in the cold winter months as the main advantage of them is no freezing. The L - 16 are a very good choice, however IF you let them become completely discharged in the winter due to normal self discharge or a power draw in your system you will have a problem. This will also happen if you have a light that you are unaware of being on then they will approach a completely discharged state and therefore your battereis will freeze at 30 degrees F.

The gel battereis do not require a equalizing and therefore you do not have to spend your time in the maintenance of them. Normally they also carry a longer warrantee than the L - 16's do which is a plus for the Gel.

The controller that you will need should be a good one and they are all user set able to what ever charge voltage that you require. The L - 16 normally is set at about 14.5 volts, however you must not set the charge on the Gel above 14.1 volts. The reason for this is that the liquid will be driven out of the Gel cells and being gel type it is impossible to refill them.

You see the L - 16 require that you regularly equalize them and the Gel require no maintenance. Therefore it depends on your needs and requirements as far as what you are expecting from your battereis and how much maintenance you are willing to do.

The 2-volt separate can units are much heavier battereis and they do vary from manufacturer therefore I cannot comment on them with out knowing the brand. In a home power system you need storage, and the best way to ruin your battereis is to over discharge them, therefore you should have a bank of battereis large enough that you do not have to use over 30% of their capacity at any time. You are having a generator and if you get an inverter / charger then when you need to you can charge your battereis with your generator.

As a rule of thumb you are buying lead by weight and the heavier the battereis are the more they will cost as well the longer they will last.

In regards to your second question is about low-voltage emergency lighting, which will affect your wiring plan. Do you recommend spending the extra time and money on a three or four 12-volt lighting circuits in the house? We figured they be worth it for basic light if the inverter punked out, and we could run a radio and the blower fan on 12 volts too.

I feel very strongly about having a duel wiring system in a remote location. As you may know about "Murphy's Law" - if it is going to break it will at the worse possible time. Our home uses 12 Volts for lights, Sun Frost refrigerator and a water pressure pump so that in the event of a inverter brake down then we will have refrigerated food, water and lights. YES it is an excellent idea.

We give the following Wiring Suggestions information to our friends that want to have a duel wiring system. I hope this information will help you.

These are suggestions only and we do not accept any responsibility for any problems which may arise using them, they are merely meant to help the installer and user.






Help - I have Battery Problems ?
© Copyright 1995 By Charlie Collins From "Ask Mr. Solar" Daily Spectrum

Question from Jozef C, Vermont

Question:Greetings from Vermont. My solar setup is up and running. Four Siemens panels with six Trojan T105 batteries. Using a tracker, Trace 30A and Trimetric Meter setup. The meter sometimes reads 14 v with the charge light on and sometimes the charge light is off with the 30A showing no charging. I assume that the 30A disconnected the panels from the charging of the batteries but my set point shutoff on the Trimetric is wrong?

What is the voltage of the batteries at full charge? What should I set to achieve a cutoff and correct meter read at the cutoff point?

Mr. Solar: Jozef, your problem is like many in that they buy a product from someone and then they are left alone as to what is happening with their system.

First you should have a good book on batteries, I recommend the book New Solar Electrical Home by Joel Davidson which explains in detail about solar electric systems, however it is a little advanced. Your Trace 30A and Trimetric Meter are very good controls, however they will not disconnect your system, should your batteries become discharged to low dangerous point. By this I mean that you should NOT discharge your batteries below 50% of their capacity as you will greatly reduce their capacity, actually you should only use 30% of their capacity and not let them get below 12.5 VDC in a float state. You can control your batteries discharge level so that they will not go below this point by watching your Trimetric Meter and disconnecting your system when the above level is reached.

You should consider your Trace 30A a control for your batteries so that they will not over charge and not a disconnect control. You should have your controller set to cut off at about 14 VDC as this is a full charge, however you will need to equalize your batteries about every 2 months and therefore you will need to throw the switch on your controller at that time.

Your Trimetric Meter is only a meter that tells you what your voltage is at a set time, how much you have drawn from your batteries in total amps over a period and how much you are charging or discharging at this time. You should use it mainly in the voltage mode and act accordingly.

I would recommend that you add a disconnect switch to your system or an alarm which you can hear in order not to ruin your investment in your batteries.



IS There A Difference In Storage Batteries?
© Copyright 1994 By Charlie Collins From "Ask Mr. Solar" Daily Spectrum


Question: Please explain the differences in electrical storage batteries for use in home power for storage.

Jim S Apple Valley, Utah

Mr. Solar: Jim, you have basically two types of storage batteries which are being used at this time for electrical home power storage. They either use an acid or alkaline solution in the batteries. We will point out the advantages as well as the disadvantages in each type so that you can draw your own conclusion to the type that you would rather have. This is a very timely question since it will require a detailed explanation. We will answer it in two parts. Last week we will discussed the commonly known lead acid type and this week we will finish our discussion with the alkaline type.

There are several major advantages in using alkaline type of batteries. The alkaline batteries are made with nickel cadmium or nickel iron. The major difference between them is that the cadmium ones have a faster discharge curve however the cadmium is very bad for the environment. The nickel iron does not have any environmental problems. Sometimes these batteries are more sluggish or slower to respond when a load is applied. They also must be broken in or run through several cycles before they reach their capacity. The main advantage that I have found is that you can add to your storage system anytime you desire, as the they do not have any memory and therefore you won't be penalized any time you want to increase your storage system. They both have a solution that does not freeze and therefore you can use them in a cold climate and not worry about freezing.

The new alkaline batteries can be left unattended for long periods of time and they can be fully discharged without any damage done to their life of a normal 4,000 cycles. Which if properly cared for will last for approximately 20 years in a home power system. It is possible to have these reconditioned which will restore them near to their original condition. With lead acid type it is impossible to recondition them as they use acid which destroys the cells, where as the alkaline use a solution of lithium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and distilled water which does not destroy the cells or freeze.

From time to time there are some reconditioned nickel-cadmium on the market which cost about one third the amount of new ones. We have used this type of reconditioned ones here on the DO IT and have better success with them than using the lead acid ones. However as with any used product they have their draw backs. We feel that if we could afford new nickel-cadmium, then we may use them, however the cost is prohibitive as well as the environmental problems. We are recently installed a set of New nickel iron batteries. These batteries have recently become available from Europe and we are very happy with them to date. We have found that they out perform any other batteries that we have used to date. Our supplier of these batteries runs them through several cycles and supplies them ready to go. This large honorable supplier also guarantees them to have at least 90 percent capacity for at least five years which is better than any other guarantee on the market at this time.

We feel that choosing the proper batteries is a very important part of your whole home power system, and with careful consideration you can have a storage system that will give you years of trouble free service.




Winterizing Batteries
© Copyright 1994 By Charlie Collins From "Ask Mr. Solar" Column Published 8/18/95 Daily Spectrum


Question: I understand that the winter is hard on lead acid batteries. Since it is about hear I am wondering what I should do to winterize my batteries that I use in my cabin. I am wondering if I can take certain measures so that they will not freeze.

---Jim Thomas Flagstaff, AZ

Mr. Solar: Dear Jim, you are correct that you do need to take precautions to protect your lead acid batteries. What happens when they freeze is that the ice forms and the expanding crystals bend the internal plates, puncture the separators and push the active lead material off the grid plates. They will not freeze if they are fully charged until they fall to -40º F temperature. However remember that lead acid batteries self discharge and in short order they can go down to about 50 percent of charge. At that lower state of charge they will freeze at 0º F. There really isn't much left to a battery after it has frozen.

You have several choices that you can take to keep your batteries from freezing. The simplest and surest solution to keep the lead acid type from freezing is to move them to a warmer climate in the winter. Another choice would be to build an insulated battery container. This should have a vent so that the hydrogen gas can escape. You should also charge your batteries with solar electric solar panels. You should reset your adjustable charge controller so that your batteries will charge between 13.5 and 13.8 volts. This is below the normal charge setting. It should be set low so that you will not over gas your batteries when you are not available to check on them.

Jim, of course the easiest thing is to install either a set of gel cell or alkaline batteries. We recommend you use the nickel iron alkaline ones for medium to large systems and the gel cell for smaller systems. We do not recommend that you use the reconditioned nickel cadmium ones as they have not proven reliable for home use. In regards to the gel cell's we only recommend that you use the new Sonnenschein technology.

If you would like to learn more about these batteries as well as other general solar information please plan to attend the conference to be held at Utah State University at Cedar City on October 16. I will be a guest speaker. For further information about this conference sponsored by the Association of Independent Home Educators of Southern Utah you should contact Caron Josey at 877-1067 for further information.




How Can I Destroy My Storage Batteries?
© Copyright 1995 By Charlie Collins From "Ask Mr. Solar" Column Published 1995 Daily Spectrum


Question:I understand that the batteries that are now available for are the weakest point of any home electrical system. I have heard many disturbing facts about batteries for the home power system, and therefore I am confused. Please explain the differences in electrical storage batteries.

Jim S Elscante, Utah

Mr. Solar: Jim, you are correct in your understanding about storage batteries. In fact that is why there aren't electric cars on the road today is because of the problems with batteries. As you know we desire some form of storage so that we can have lights as well as use other toys when the sun goes down, and batteries are currently the best available form of storage. There are basically two types of storage batteries which are being used at this time for electrical home power storage. They are either an acid or alkaline batteries. We will point out the advantages as well as the disadvantages in each type so that you can draw your own conclusion to the type that you would rather have. This is a very timely question since it will require a detailed explanation. We will answer it in three parts.

This week we will point out the ease of destroying or running a set of batteries. When you consider the two basic types you should first realize that the alkaline type will not freeze and the lead acid type will. This is a major problem in that if your batteries are left unattended over a long period of time. All batteries will self discharge over time and this causes a real problem with lead acid ones as they discharge the fluid in them will freeze at the same temperature that water freezes. Therefore if you are using lead acid type you must take precautions to keep this from happening. I suggest that you have a freeze proof container. You should also have a trickle charge into them so that will resist freezing. This can easy be accomplished using a solar charge set up with controllers set to maintain a correct float level so that the batteries will not become over charged and boil dry.

Another easy way to destroy your lead acid batteries is to use up all of the charge, in other words to completely discharge them on a regular bases. The manufactures of lead acid batteries tell you that you should only use 50% of the storage capacity. Actually if you use only 30% off the top then you will find that they will last much longer, up to 5 years on the L-16 Exide type. Pacific Chloride Industrial type which are about ten times heaver that the Exide L-16's and have five year warranty and should last ten years or longer. There are also the IBE batteries which are used by the telephone companies and have an expected life of 15 years. These figures are based on the user properly caring for their batteries. They also must have an equalize charge about each month. It goes without saying that you should never continually over charge your batteries which would cause them to boil dry and easy ruin them. The gel cell type of lead acid batteries are very good for a small system and do NOT require any maintenance, however they must not be over charged as they will loose all their electro-light and it cannot be replaced, consequently you will easy ruin them if they are ever over charged.

The alkaline type batteries will not freeze, however it is also possible to do damage to them. The worse thing that you can do is to add unclean water to them, as you should only use distilled water. At one time we recommended the reconditioned type, however we have found that they do not hold up very long and therefore only recommend that you only consider they new ones, which carry a very long warranty.




The advantages of Alkaline Batteries for Home Power
© Copyright 1994 By Charlie Collins From "Ask Mr. Solar" Column Published 10/23/94 Daily Spectrum


Question:I understand that the batteries that are now available for are the weakest point of any home electrical system. I have heard many disturbing facts about batteries for the home power system, and therefore I am confused. Please explain the differences in electrical storage batteries.

Jim S., Elscante, Utah

Mr. Solar: Jim, last week we discussed the ease of destroying a set of batteries that you may use in your home power system. This week we are going to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the alkaline type storage batteries. We are only discussing the large liquid type of battery and not the small ones which are designed for use in airplanes or other uses which require long periods of discharge. Remember you should only use the ones which are designed for extended charge and discharge rates. The advantages of the alkaline type are that they will not freeze and you can increase the size of your storage system at any time.

At one time we operated our home on used or so called reconditioned alkaline batteries as we were under the impression that they would be as good as new ones. We have learned through trial and error that this was a very costly mistake. There are two problems with "reconditioned" batteries. The nickel cadmium type contain cadmium which is VERY bad for the environment and therefore when they are recycled this material must be disposed of in an environmental safe way. The second problem is that as with any "used" item it is impossible to bring it up to the high standard that it was once designed for. As we all know when you buy a new car you don't expect problems, however what do you expect with a used "cheep" one?

Now with several years of battery problems I now finally realize that I should only consider using the best available and only NEW ones which are designed for home power usage. There are two type of alkaline ones which are available at this time. They are the new Nickel Cadmium (nicad) made by Nife in America and new Nickel Iron imported from Hungary. The advantages of the Nife ones is that they carry a 25 year prorated warranty, however I feel that their cost is prohibited. The Nickel Iron ones from Hungary carry only a five year warranty, however it is not prorated, meaning that if they do not hold at least 90% of their rated power at any time during that period they will be replaced by the distributor in California who imports them. This warranty given as they have gained from the experience being used in Hungary in the mines. They are totally discharged and recharged daily for a period of five years without any decrease of storage power.

We recently upgraded our system to carry an increased load of a dish washer and trash compactor along with our washing machine and other toys we have been using. I have been using a set of 20 Nickel Iron cells in our home at the DO IT for over two years. Recently I increased our storage bank to 40 Nickel Iron battery cells. After extensive testing I find that the original Nickel Iron cells are holding the power as well today as they were the day I first installed them. I am hoping that they will last my life time, but possibly that is a little to much to ask of any battery. The one draw back in using the alkaline batteries, is that you must have a charge system designed for these batteries as well as an inverter that will handle the higher charge float voltage.

Jim, next week we will discuss the advantage as well as the disadvantage of the more common lead acid type.



The advantages of Lead Acid Batteries for Home Power
© Copyright 1995 By Charlie Collins From "Ask Mr. Solar" Column Published 8/18/95 Daily Spectrum



Question: Mr. Solar, I understand that the batteries that are now available for are the weakest point of any home electrical system. I have heard many disturbing facts about batteries for the home power system, and therefore I am confused. Please explain the differences in electrical storage batteries.

Jim S., Elscante, Utah

Mr. Solar:

Jim, last week we discussed the advantages and disadvantages of the alkaline type storage batteries. This week we are going to discuss the more common lead acid type of batteries. We are all aware of these as it is what is used in our trucks. The lead acid ones which we use for home power storage are similar, however they have much heavier plates. This battery is designed for many cycles of charging and discharging at a slow rate.

We started using lead acid batteries some 20 years ago here at the DO IT. Our experience has been very interesting. We first started with a 3000 pound set of submarine batteries which were "new" as they had never had any acid added to them. During the first winter we completely destroyed them as we didn't have a proper freeze proof container and they froze. We then went to a medium set of "used" telephone batteries, however since they were used we also had poor luck with them. We then tried some new marine batteries and found better success with these than any other lead acid ones. Thus we learned through trial and error that you must keep your lead acid batteries from freezing and also that you should only consider new ones. I guess I was like every one else, I didn't see any reason on spending mega bucks on batteries. Actually I have found since this is the heart of our home power system it should be the best batteries that anyone can afford.

I feel that lead acid batteries have a good home in weekend cabins. This is where the owner uses his electricity only on weekends and has a system to assure that they will be kept fully charged. The new gel cell type fit the bill for this purpose. These gel batteries will not freeze and do not require any maintenance If they are properly maintained with only using the charge from the top of the batteries then they should last a cabin owner five or perhaps ten years in a remote cabin.

As for using lead acid batteries for home storage when you live completely dependent on alternative electricity then personally I would not consider using the lead acid type as there as there several inherent problems with them. Mainly you have to buy a very large bank to start with as they cannot be added to with more new ones at a later date. You have more maintenance with them than the alkaline type and they will freeze. The only advantage you will find is that they cost less up front, however on a five, ten, or twenty year bases lead acid batteries are much more expensive.


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